Recently, I had an experience which required me to contact those within the 'system' and I still find that experience VERY unnerving, to say the least. And, to put my label on them, is to say they totally lack compassion.
In my mind, there's a huge difference between having a legitimate dream with a map to get there along with some real data to show that the dream can be achievable by MOST. What MLM's (and that's the purpose of bringing up this type business structure in these message boards) present to potential recruits is oftentimes a plain old illusion based on emotional reaction (excitement) with the crucial data of success rates never disclosed. Maybe because, if they were, they wouldn't be so enticing???? But that NSD's check is??
When the majority of women do not see a good profit, even after significant effort, they are blamed for not working or left to feel like a failure. I've spoken with many who fell into unethical practices such as myself, who felt they were the only ones who did this (as it's a huge secret) until they found these boards and became comforted in knowing they weren't the only ones who fell to temptation and no longer feel like total wretches..thank God for forgiveness from repentance....perhaps, that is what many real Christian women do when they decide to QUIT, it's not quitting, it's repenting. And, I am not talking MK, I am talking all MLM's.
The whole illusion of living a lifestyle of the rich and famous, which is implanted in us upon the moment we are recruited, is dangled in front of us in the forms of meetings at nice hotels, diamonds, cars, large houses, servants, etc., as promises of rewards for working your business. Some women are so taken by their directors and their charms that they are willing to go into debt to support the unit only to find that when they 'fail' and leave, their 'friendship' with those very same women whom they thought were friends and were sincere about, ceases....leaving a wake of emotional mixups. But, this is the way it goes in MLM's, classic....you leave, you're out, of everything and woe to you who tries to maintain friendships within! That's why this is brought up in these message boards to show the behavior patterns in companies which are structured as MLM's...this insight comes from personal experience, from common experiences of other women and men and from study. This is not an emotional whiplash to cover up failure, this is something very important that needs to be talked about more and more, hopefully, to change some of the things we 'negative writers' are talking about.
Since my exit, I have experienced, first hand, the emotional frustration of trying to maintain relationships with those still involved, we cannot talk about the truth (aka negativity) without repercussions, big ones. Who are the ones really 'tainted'????
Speaking of 'tainted', those who have left are labeled with that word referring to us as popping a bubble & discouraging others.....but are we really? When you leave you can count on being encouraged to 'fade away' and 'move on' rather than talking about your feelings and concerns. Compassion? I think not. I see it as a continued practice to 'protect' those inside who may get a glimpse of what is truly happening. But, one thing God does promise, is that everything gets revealed sooner or later.
And, before we get blasted, yet again, by these comments, let me assure you I am not talking about EVERYONE involved and I am not talking about MK only. I've spent months trying to figure things out, being torn about making a decision to leave for good and involved myself in extensive research regarding the mindset of MLM type companies and I see alot that concerns me.........if someone does NOT see the deceptions associated with "It's in the Bag" marketing technique, that's half the problem.
It's common knowledge that you NEED "Stars" (those who purchase inventories of $1800 or more) to help maintain production and those stars, each month, are the new recruits who are being led in by illusion to purchase inventories before their 'allotted time' (2 mos), most of who, within a year will be a personal user or leave. That's a known fact, but seldom communicated to consultants until after they become a director.
There's statements in these posts from PRO-MK'ers to that effect also. I do not feel like I am ANTI-MK.....I have other Anti-issues and those have been clearly communicated repeatedly. My anti-issues are that in too many cases, newbees are brought in by deception and leave with rejection and this spells 'success'??? It's a numbers game, period. And while love and care of others is motive to many who operate happily, that's great. You'll will attract people with that sincerity, however, again, too many use love/care of others as a guise for their own personal motives in these type structures by using charm & flattery and other illusions and that is a fact, so beware ladies.
One last comment regarding 'success'......as I've said before, not everyone who works their 20 hour a week business will have the same results. Some live in larger cities where expos are abundant and to even hint that a 20 hour effort will reap similar benefits is just not right. Please do not negate facts. Similar stories are all over these boards. I am not the initiator of them by any means.....I am only putting my .02 in, as so many say, and am focusing attention on those not-so-happy MLM'ers. I kinda like that I can recover emotionally by writing on these boards and am allowed to do so by the creators of these boards, freely.....more freely, I may say, than some of my closest friends or x-mary kay'ers. Recently, I even had communication from one who didn't realize I had returned my inventory and once I told her I had, I have not heard from her since....guess I am 'tainted' now, and negative......I say, good for me. It's fun to be able to talk to women about stuff with no underlying motive to recruit them and the bigger motive that they 'may purchase inventory'...perhaps do an 'emerald' star order. Ugh!
If someone reads these boards and makes a decision to not join, who can say that their 'dream' was popped.....many who read these boards are appreciative of the facts they learn about which are not presented upon interview and are therefore able to proceed in their business venture with the facts that are normally kept in 'secret' for some reason. In my opinion, these are WISE women who may go far in MK or any other business since they can take real facts and make an informed decision one way or another. Some will not join based on factual knowledge and that is their right....to know the facts! To recruit someone coming in with deception should be unheard of in a God first company and I think this company would do good to update some of their techniques....women have changed. Is there any reason why a corporate office could not update their scripts??? Could that be early this year or next year??? Whatever would work best for you!
Last week, I was grossly conned by a gal whom I trusted.....she took me for quite a sum of money by playing on my heartstrings with her sad story and even went to the extent of coming to church with me. Last Friday, checks she had forged were returned to me and I I was responsible to make good of them and my account was charged the sum she had written. This situation was not MK related.......however, after discovering her deception and dealing with the emotion of being stupid enough to trust someone I didn't really know and not checking her out thoroughly beforehand I resolved that I would never do that again and would check out anyone or anything for validity prior to committing to anything relating to money in the future. I was conned, plain and simple......and she was a con artist....yet if I had not went in emotionally to help a poor soul who seemed to have no break in life, but took heed to those red flags of doubt which sprang up in the beginning, I would have not involved myself at all. I am now wiser and as I was driving home after I went to the police station and the bank to see what I could do about this, I couldn't help but think how sickening it felt to be conned.....then one thought led to another and I started thinking about the things we were taught to say to women who would be prospects for a MK career and I could see no difference.......a con is a con....that's where women become convicted and the 'fun' stops, they simply cannot do it anymore. Not telling someone the truth or revealing facts is simply conning them. The directors notebook even gives the same scripts......'tell them it's training' (while your real motive for presenting the plan is to recruit them)...a con. Or don't say 'dollars'......another con......tell them what your highest check was and see them oooo and ahhhh......another con... (but don't tell them about all the months when you owed money or profits didn't cover expenses).......'don't be negative' (revealing the truth).....another con. Then, the biggest one is when everyone thinks if you follow everything tried and true in MK, you will also get the same results....failure to do so is your own fault, no one elses....that's the biggest con. Shameful.
LauraRyan - 03 Mar 2004
Wow, if MK was a con (which it's not)and from the information you are divludging, it seems like you are conned a lot. Sounds like a personal issue. I think the real issue is in your heart. Because you have been conned so often, it is easy to look at everything that way. I have used the scrips about sharing the Mary Kay information, but in my heart I love this company and I do want them on my team and enjoy the advantages that MK has to offer. I have always told the person that upfront. I tell them I would love for them to be on my team and explain that not only would they be getting the information on the company but they are helping me with my training. You have to be true in your heart and in your intentions. This company does have it's challenges. If the income doesn't cover the cost of things then you are not working. When you start other businesses (restaurants for example most of the time don't show a profit for an average of 3-5 years). It is unrealistic to thing there will be no downs!!!!!! The fact is you earn 50% of what you sell, what you do with that 50% is up to you. This business is about discipline. It's easier to work for someone else and have them tell you what to do....it's a whole other thing when you have to be the boss and the employee....sounds like you have conned yourself into believing MK is a con because you conned yourself into thinking that this business doesn't work. There are thousands out there that are living proof that MK works.....when you follow everything tried and true. That's why they say tried and true. How fast did you quit???? It is true what they say...the only way loose is to quit!
Michelle Figures - 16 Mar 2004
You gave me great insight with respect to people who complain about being "conned." What intrigues me is how the "conned" (the victim) thinks nothing of conning others. I joined a "survivor" MK messageboard "after" reading the mission statement (very misleading BTW). I was shocked at how personal information was divulged in posts and the disrespect allowed by the moderator. I posted only "once" (I questioned the boards integrity with regard to divulging personal info and hateful posts) and was rudely blasted by the moderator/owner. I was "conned" by a messageboard mission statement "once", it won't happen again (once bitten twice shy).
It amazes me how some former MK directors will cry "conned" and "victimized" and then when they do the same to others, they justify it and call it fair play. I had a good laugh though when I read the above post from Laura; "I can recover emotionally by writing on these boards and am allowed to do so by the creators of these boards, freely.....more freely, I may say, than some of my closest friends or x-mary kay'ers."
On the mksurvivor board, the owner gets to "freely" express herself while she moderates (controls) everyone elses posts. You end up with a one sided opinion board (that's freedom for ALL?). I'll take MK's opportunity "con" anyday, at least they are respectful when they're "conning" you ;-). While the mksurviors are quick to point out that we live in a pink bubble, they fail to see that "they" live in glass houses. It doesn't surprise me why some make it in MK and others don't, MK doesn't need leaders who talk out of both sides of their mouth.
I do have to credit that message board though, because of it's mission statement "con" job, I decided to stay in MK and reactivate my status :-). I'll take a kind, uplifting, positive atmosphere over a vindictive, controlling, negative one anyday.
Thanks for your insight, you certainly put things into perspective for me. :-)
Cathy C - 31 May 2005
> it seems like you are conned a lot. Sounds like a personal issue. I think the real issue is in your heart.
Well, there's some truth to that. People who are compassionate and trusting are far more likely to get conned.
> If the income doesn't cover the cost of things then you are not working.
Ugh. How many times have I heard that those of us who lost money in this (roughly 99% of all who joined, as best I can figure out) just didn't work. We're lazy, that's it.
> When you start other businesses (restaurants for example most of the time don't show a
> profit for an average of 3-5 years).
It's well known that restaurants are a particularly hard type of business to run. Mary Kay claims to be an easy one to run. And even then, the owner/managers of restaurants typically pay themselves a salary, so even while their business is losing money, they're making an income. When people claim their expenses don't cover the costs in Mary Kay, they're not taking a salary as one of those expenses.
> The fact is you earn 50% of what you sell,
Well, you do if you charge the full retail price and spend no money whatsoever to make the sale. But it seems few people can actually get any kind of sales volume that way.
> It's easier to work for someone else and have them tell you what to do.
It sure as. And yet, when Mary Kay people are trying to recruit you, they go to some lengths to make it sound easier and more profitable than working a J.O.B, when typically, in reality, it's harder and less profitable.
> There are thousands out there that are living proof that MK works.....
> when you follow everything tried and true.
Are there? Do you know them? How do you know it's really working for them? Have you seen their tax returns? Because, you know, Mary Kay sales people often work by the "fake it till you make it" principle. How many of these supposed thousands are really faking it?
> It is true what they say...the only way loose is to quit!
The only way to get loose is to quit? Yes, I think that's true. Or do you mean the only way to lose is to quit? In the case of Mary Kay or other MLM's that's not true. We've heard many stories of people who have increased their losses, both financial and social, by continuing for years, working harder and harder.
RachelSuddeth - 04 Jun 2005
> I was shocked at how personal information was divulged in posts and the disrespect
> allowed by the moderator.
I go to that list frequently, and I never saw any personal information divulged except by the posters about themselves. I did see one person complain that names had been given om a post. However, I also read that post, and the 2 names that were mentioned were first names the posters themselves had given in posts they'd previously sent to the list. We don't know if they were their real names or not. In one case, I suspect not, since her user id looked like initials, and the initials did not match the name. Using the names was done for clarity to make sure it was understood who we were posting about, much as I just used your name when I said "In response to Cathy C:". I had been addressing that poster by name because I'm not comfortable calling people things like verigirl or crs1000. Someone was clarifying that the name and handle of that person both refered to the same person.
And, as it happened, the moderator didn't tolerate the disrespect on that thread. She removed the disrespectful post, spoke to the person who made that posts and to the list about it, and ended up removing the whole thread from the site.
> I posted only "once" (I questioned the boards integrity with regard to divulging
> personal info and hateful posts) ...
If you disapproved of the post, why did you continue it by posting about it? When you complain about a thread on a list, it makes the thread last longer, and argument continue.
> I had a good laugh though when I read the above post from Laura; "I can recover
> emotionally by writing on these boards and am allowed to do so by the creators of these
> boards, freely.....more freely, I may say, than some of my closest friends or x-mary kay'ers."
> On the mksurvivor board, the owner gets to "freely" express herself while she moderates
> (controls) everyone elses posts.
The former was about this wiki forum, which is public and allows free expression. The latter was about a members only yahoo group, which was never intended to allow complete freedom of expression. I'm very grateful for this forum, because it is good to have both sides presented together. But I certainly see the need for the moderated forum, too. You have to be pretty brave to post a strong opinion here either way. If you post strongly "con", you will get reemed by pro MK people. You have to be pretty tough to take that.
I find it interesting that you first questioned why the moderator allowed certain expression, and then complained that she didn't allow all expression. Which way do you want it?
RachelSuddeth - 04 Jun 2005
You posted on the survivors message board literally HUNDREDS of times. Your experience in MK was negative. You are now saying something else in order to discredit those on the board. What gives??? Quit hiding behind fake names and fake email addresses. You're BUSTED AGAIN!!!
Dear Laura Ryan (moderator/owner of MKSurvivors Group)
I have copied your post and emailed it to yahoo security. :-) Thank you for publicly validating my short but eye opening experience on your board. My friend was a member on your board for quite sometime and knows the email address and the former member of whom you are accusing me of impersonating. I will also email her a copy. In the meantime, did you ever hear of forging info on someones domain? Not a good thing. Please get your issues checked out before it gets you deeper into the hole you're digging for yourself. It's obvious, since you have been banned from other MK boards for misconduct, false accusations and obsessive negative emailing, that you have offended many others. Were they too slandered? I will investigate this further.
Haven't you figured out yet that you are the laughing stock of MK opinion boards. Your ramblings and lies are nothing but GREAT material for a comedy club. If you enjoy people having a laugh at your expense, then by all means, PLEASE KEEP POSTING!!!!
Laura Ryan - 06 Jun 2005
* Set ALLOWTOPICCHANGE = User.EliMantel
| Topic MaryKayOpinion152 . { Edit | Ref-By | Attach | Diffs | r1.14 | > | r1.13 | > | r1.12 | > | r1.11 | >... } |
|
Revision r1.14 - 06 Jun 2005 - 18:43 by LauraRyan
Privacy Policy |
Copyright © 2000-2005 by the contributing authors.
All material on this collaboration tool is the property of the contributing authors. Collect email addresses here. Ideas, requests, problems regarding TWiki? Send feedback. |