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after having my first child, a marykay rep that i had known saw that as her big recruitment break,she knew that i was tryig to be a stay at home mom. she made it look fabulous...easy easy she said. she promised myself and my husband that this was in no way a pyramid scheme.

now, not being somebody that is afraid of hard work i was willing to start. i ordered a 2000.00 inventory..or at least the director did. she added quite a few things that cannot be returned under the buyback gurantee. once this happened i began to dig deeper into the whole system. i then learned that she got commission off of this. so, sounds like a pyramid after all!?

i had my "mandatory" grand opening which was a joke. the 5 people that showed up out of the over 60 i invited were completely insulted by the ways that the dirctor and recruiter talked to them. told them that they could not buy certain products without buying others..to my suspicion this had to do with the commission deal again. i also was promised certain gifts that were not received.

when confronted about this my director said that i had not yet earned them, and that i needed to purchase more inventory. at least 200.00 worth every two weeks. now, my question is if this is MY business to run how i like, and if it is not a pyramid. why would they be so concerned with what i am doing to run my business the way that i like.

in addition to this, if i am correct this is a christian organization, i consider myself to be a christian and never did i hear that being deceitful for your own gain was in any way a part of it. to make matters worse, i have had a random charge to my credit card that i did not authorize by my recruiter, that thought it would be "OK" to sign for my cc for a hotel stay for a marykay event that i had previously backed out of. not very christian either. this is just the tip of the iceberg of events that have taken place with these two women.

also, i am not the only person from this area that have had a problem with these same two people. so my question is are a majority of women who are succesful with this business really successful...or just reaping the benefits of other women that have been blindsided by the "pink dreams" that these recruiter and directors claim they can help us to acheive.

my only advice to any woman considering getting involved with marykay is to be very aware of a few things. first, there is something to gain for that overly happy lady who just wants you to "acheive the dream", otherwise, why on earth would they go to the length that they do to get you to sign on. second, while marykay products may be good products, howmany real women do you know who are able and willing to spend hundreds of dollars on "a beauty regimine"...chances are not many. so beware, to make thousands of dollars from your home, regardless of the amount of hard work you put in is the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM, unless ofcourse you are willing to be just a tiny bit dishonest along the way.

thanks,stuck with lots of purple eyeshadow samples and less money.
Erin H  - 09 Dec 2004

The second issue I ran into was similar to yours and came a few weeks after the incident above. I signed up for Seminar in Dallas and was planning to stay with my best friend (since childhood) who lives in Dallas and is not a consultant. Another Director in our unit called me at home one evening and tried to talk me into giving her my credit card number to reserve a spot in the hotel room that would be shared by other consultants in our unit (total of four per room, I believe). I told her that I was intending to stay with my friend. She then told me I would be missing out on so much of the important aspects of seminar, the comraderie of fellow consultants in our unit, etc. She was pushy, to say the least and was really trying to discourage me from my plans. I never did give her my cc number. The next day I called my Director and told her about the incident. She told me that she was truly sorry for the other Director's behavior (her offspring) and that she needed a bit of polishing in her message delivery. I am more inclined to think that the behavior I witnessed was the offspring Director's true personality but that because I am SUCH a strong-willed person (thank heaven for small favors) she had no choice but to back off. This kind of behavior is unacceptable for co-workers in other organizations, so why do some Directors in MK feel it is acceptable to treat their co-workers with such disrespect as to try to manipulate them?
LyndaLucas  - 12 Jan 2005

I am usually on here to learn more about other people's MK experiences, because I joined a few months ago with the intention of NOT being active and taking it slow for some time. I tried taking off a few times, but ultimately, I decided that I need to focus on other avenues of my life. My recruiter and my director, along with other offspring directors in her team are lovely people. I am sure that if I needed advice, unrelated to MK that I would be fine, but it IS supposed to be MY business, and I will choose to run it however I wish, even if that means NOT running it for a while and NOT feeding money into their commissions. There is nothing terribly wrong with commission. I think it is fair and it is also part of the motivation used to encourage greater sales. This is the only incentive that works, not the diamond rings and cheesy stuff, pink cars and tarty prizes.

What i do think is a bit absurd is the way people generalize the company based on one or two people they know in it. It is unfair and a bit immature. I know that it is hard to work MK, which is why I stopped doing it for a while, but I also know that if I had put a sincere effort to market my products and my services, I would have had fun and made money. You don't have to be dishonest. The products are good and I have no hesitation recommending a skin care plan to a woman who wants to look better, but true, you cannot afford many of the MK products all of the time. It is something to think about when you look back at your MK experience. I can sit here and tell you all about how *I* run MY business, but that does not mean that you must do it the same things, too. It means that if I am your director and that if THIS is the way I ended up climbing up to become YOUR director that you MAY want to take a clue and determine what I did that you would like to do. It's not a bad thing, but of course, if I have been deceitufl and if i am telling you to lie or be dishonest to your customers, who start off being family and friends then, it is YOUR decision to ignore me, and run your business how you like.
Yvy Barney  - 23 May 2005

Erin I guess I don't get some of your points. You invited 60 people and only 5 showed up. Did you know the 60 people well? After sending out invites with "RSVPS" (which I assume you did) did you call them to "remind" them a few days before your event?

< i then learned that she got commission off of this. so, sounds like a pyramid after all!? > THAT'S how ALL direct sales companies pay their sales force (commissions).

When I placed my first order, I knew "sales aides" were NOT returnable (it's in writing) but I only ordered 5% of the $600 (on $1200 retail) for sales aides ($60).

< when confronted about this my director said that i had not yet earned them, and that i needed to purchase more inventory. at least 200.00 worth every two weeks. now, my question is if this is MY business to run how i like, and if it is not a pyramid >

Were the "prizes" you said you didn't receive connected with an ongoing unit contest that had selling and ordering rules? A $200 w/s order every 2 weeks is only $100 weekly sales. Some consultants may think that this is a "ploy" to GET the order when in all actuality, it is geared towards keeping you focused (or motivated) on selling at least $100 a week (that's doing ONLY "1" facial and a reorder per week). It also trains consultants to NOT embezzle their business by spending ALL the profit BEFORE replenishing what they sold from their inventory. So what's wrong with this picture? "If" a consultant isn't selling at least $100 a week, she won't stay in MK long. She will lose her self confidence and start focusing on all the reasons why this business isn't for her. You certainly could have run your business the way YOU wanted to.

You did NOT have to go for the prize if you didn't want to work the contest, it's just that simple. You don't even have to sign up for PCP if you didn't want to (why anybody does is beyond me - my "personal" opinion mind you).

< while marykay products may be good products, howmany real women do you know who are able and willing to spend hundreds of dollars on "a beauty regimine"...chances are not many. >

BELIEVE it or not, MANY women will spend THAT and much MORE per year. Just because you yourself may not believe it, that doesn't mean you're the majority out there. Maybe that was one of the problems that held you back in MK, you didn't "think" others would spend money on skin care. Not many women can sell what they don't believe in.

As for the recruiter who used your cc for the room you booked, didn't you personally cancel the room out and your cc? If not WHY not? Something just doesn't make sense here. When I had to cancel out of a MK event, I canceled my room. "If" my roomates wanted to keep the room, I had them give me THEIR cc # when I canceled the room so I could then give the hotel the new cc# and name. Even though she used your cc without your authorization (how she could do that is beyond me "if" you cancelled it out yourself), I'm assuming she paid you back and you used that money to pay your cc bill. No, I don't agree with what she did at all BUT I still don't see how she could have done this "if" you took responsibility for cancelling your own room and cc# in the first place. You didn't explain this so I have to assume you didn't personally handle your cancellation and THAT'S how this all came about when the hotel clerk presented them w/the bill. I had a friend who always wanted to use HER cc to book the rooms and collect the cash so she could earn flyer miles on her credit card.

< so beware, to make thousands of dollars from your home, regardless of the amount of hard work you put in is the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM >

Again, this is a very generalized and broad statement. I have yet to hear about the details involved in the "hard work you put into" it besides the "1" open house you held in the very beginning. I would have to have "hard work" defined for me in order to have a better understanding.

Please understand, I do NOT mean to make light of your feelings and I hope you won't take it that way ( I'm very sincere about this). I'm just trying to digest all of this and make sense out of it. It just appears to me that there were an awful lot of presumptions and very little discussion or communication. Just because your recruiter said MK was "easy", it may not have seemed easy for YOU. Did you ask detailed questions BEFORE joining (like: How do you make your money? Explain the mechanics of a class? How do you find your people?, etc)? Did you attend training? Did you call your director for help? How many days did you actually work MK (think time isn't included) and when you did work, what did you do and how many hours did you spend?

Many former MK women feel that they were "victimized" when in reality it's not the REAL case. When you get the whole picture into focus, you find out there's MANY more underlying facts involved. That's WHY I have a problem with message boards like MK Survivors, instead of discussing WHY a person felt victimized and HOW to overcome it, they just agree with you. Even then, "if" someone on the board DOESN'T agree with you, you'll end up being VICTIMIZED all over again by being publicly sucker punched by her. It's hardly the place to find "healing." That may not seem fair but it's reality. Pro/con message boards Do NOT deal with the REAL issue at hand and "if" you don't deal with it, it's just a matter of time before you will feel or allow yourself to be victimized again.

People who feel victimized tend to feel victimized when a friendship goes sour or a marital breakup occurs, or when someone else gets the promotion, etc. Flaming pink boards aren't the answer either since they too are biased. MK Opinion appears to be a happy medium where you have the opportunity to hear "BOTH" sides, get BOTH viewpoints and put things into proper perspective. I guess you could say MK Opinion offers more of a "balanced perspective" (thank God!).

Kathy
Katy C  - 01 Jun 2005

Actually, I've spent some time time over at MKSurvivors, and I did learn a lot about why I felt the way I did after my Mary Kay experience, and how to overcome the repercussions it had on my personal life. I've learned a lot of things that have helped me be a happier person, and helped my marriage and family life to be better. I know there were many factors, but it's been good to have support and realize I'm not alone. They've made it easier to forgive myself for the mistakes I made and move on. It's also very healing to be involved in helping others with their research, so they don't come into it uninformed the way I did. I expect many women through this forum and MKSurvivors will have the knowledge to make better decisions than I did.

> Even then, "if" someone on the board DOESN'T agree with you, you'll end up being
> VICTIMIZED all over again by being publicly sucker punched by her.

Like all forums, we have had a few issues there. However, I've seen a LOT more "sucker-punching" here. Laura has bent over backwards to try to be fair while still protecting the feelings of members who support the purpose of the board. There will always be situations where it's hard to know what to do, and no moderator will get everything perfect. Even so, I've never seen her make a decision I found unsupportable. I've got a lot of good information there, and I've never been attacked by pro-MK people the way I have here. It's okay for me to post here -- I know what's coming and I'm up for it. In fact, I'm truly grateful for this forum and what it offers. But I truly see a need for what we're doing at MKSurvivors, too.
Rachel Suddeth  - 05 Jun 2005

Rachel,

If I'm not mistaken, aren't you one of the moderators????? Of course you will support what you helped create. I stand my ground, the mksurvivor board is NOT a place for healing and the friend who recommended it has since unsubscribed from there and apologized to me for the moderators public display of rudeness. No one expects anyone to be perfect but there's NO excuse for disrespect or accussations either. I spent 2-3 days reading past threads right after I joined and what I read didn't resemble "other" forum "issues" at all. I posted only once and the response I received was more than enough for me. Then there were personal emails sent to me by another gal claiming to be a moderator and they were real doozies (pretty obsessive and scary in nature). I ended up having to contact yahoo security to report the problem.

I'm sure you are "truly grateful" for the survivor board, it's the only place where you can MK bash, poster bash, thread bash amd member bash on one board! I couldn't believe how NSDS and Mary Kay Ash were so disgracefully and publicly humiliated. If participating on a forum that demeans Mary Kay Ash, NSDS and new members is what you need in order to help you heal or justify your MK experience, than God bless you. Most adults would find it repulsive.

All I can say is "NEW" mksurvivors group subscribers... BEWARE! Be very careful what info you divulge or you might end up seeing it publicly displayed by a moderator if she happens to disagree with your opinion, dislikes you or if you ask the wrong question. I do not consider this "normal" or "fair" practise by any means. Keep copies of all emails that are sent to you and any threads that contain lies or unfactual slander involving you. You DO have legal rights even on the internet.

I'm sorry if you took my honesty as a "sucker punch" or personally for that matter. What I said was truthful and mild compared to the public bashing I've witnessed on the survivor threads not to mention the relentless email attacks and false accussations that I was forced to report. Who knows, maybe the "next" new member will be a yahoo moderator??? Since the moderator/owner refuses to protect her members privacy or character, maybe an attorney can help educate her on the legalities of her actions (or lack of action).
Katy C  - 06 Jun 2005

I find it very interesting that you spent literally hours per day on the survivors board doing the so-called bashing. NOW you are coming out with a whole different story.

My advice is for you to seek professional help. Your lies are catching up with you one by one, and everyone is pretty much sick of your big mouth. Get a life, WOMAN!!!
Monica J  - 06 Jun 2005

The person who wrote the above comment on 06 Jun 2005 is not me. It seems to have been edited and my signature inserted. Eli - any suggestions regarding this type of thing?
MonicaJ  - 30 Aug 2005

> If I'm not mistaken, aren't you one of the moderators????? Of course you will support
> what you helped create.

Yes, I am one of the moderators. But no, I can not say that I helped create it. The board was established before I joined, although it was still quite new. It was amazing for a new board how much information was provided, and how much active discussion there was. Less than 3 months old, there were already too many old posts for me to read them all when I joined.

I offered my services as moderator when Laura mentioned that she was starting a new policy of moderating all new members for a while. The membership was growing so fast, and posters were so active, I could see that would be a big job. And the group had helped me so much, I wanted to contribute in any way I could.

I have limited moderator privelages. I do not have the power to approve or ban members, but I do have permission to approve individual posts, and to post files to their "files" section.

> Be very careful what info you divulge

This is good advice for anyone on the internet. You really don't know the people you're talking to. Any information you don't want public, you shouldn't tell to anyone you know only through the internet. I personally don't have a problem with anyone knowing my real name, which is why I divulge it in this forum and MKSurvivors as well. I feel that if I conduct myself with respect and integrity, I have nothing to fear from people knowing my name.

If anyone wants to know more about me or my Mary Kay experiences, you can check out http://www.pinktruth.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=202&Itemid=21

> I'm sorry if you took my honesty as a "sucker punch" or personally for that matter.

I don't know if anything you said was a "sucker punch" to me. That was not about any one specific person. There have been many such posts. I am talking about the people who have told me or others that every bad consequence of being in MK was our own fault, because we didn't work hard enough, or because we didn't do enough research, or because we were stupid enough to trust people we shouldn't have. Those of us who did work hard, and are already embarrassed that we made poor decisions based on inadequate research and inappropriate trust will feel pretty badly to hear those things. But we keep on telling what it's really like, because we want to make sure someone who does try to do the research (as I did) gets all the information she needs (which I didn't).
RachelSuddeth  - 07 Jun 2005

Many of the awful private mails she talks about were penned by her to members of my moderator team and myself. I blocked her from my mail list as did others. I am sorry she's had to use this board to tell lies and guise as someone else in an effort to discredit the good we are doing on our site. Karen had posted on MKSurvivors that she would have given her 'eye teeth' to have had such a board as ours some time ago and now she claims to be someone else and to only have been there for a few days. Simply not true - she was there for two months and was there everyday except for when she was on vacation.

What we deal with on our board is facts. Facts about income, facts, facts facts - And, people share their experiences. As most of us know - there are many women in Mary Kay who are not very kind - who have THEIR interests at heart, not ours - we simply share and yes, we get down on some of those who seem unremorseful about how they treat consultants. Angry over there? Yes, but anger is part of a recovery process and as a support group- we deal with everyone where they are and support those who have discovered the 'tactics' used to manipulate them. We've had our victories over there, women who have moved on and quit blaming themselves as MK'ers will often tell them to do. It's truly enriching another's life when you can comfort them by validating their experience and provide a safe place to share their doubts, fears, etc(without getting blasted by the cliches of the pink world).

We've been accused of many things - but when it's by someone falsely representing themselves on a public forum and repeats false information - then it's time to speak up. We've been accused of getting everyone to return their product; we've been accused of lying, being double-minded and the like. That is not true. We provide information and people DECIDE what to do with their business. Everyone becomes more informed; less blaming of themselves and most importantly, validated about that gut feeling they experienced while in MK. What is really cool is that we support those still in MK and even created our PinkBEEGone  group for consultants in MK not wanting to do it the way too many MK'ers do it these days. They simply want to exhibit their true independence, as that's the label MK has given them "Independent" - so let them be.

So, ladies, before you believe everything you read - beware that there are those who were simply miffed and felt they needed to resurrect many old posts of mine and others and attack - this was personal - she had no one's interests at heart. For someone to go public and falisfy so much - that's very, very selfish. I welcome her to come out of the woodwork and repent and retract the lies she has shared on this board and would happily debate her if she chooses to be 'real' with all of us. Because she has done and said things from both sides of the fence, personally, I'd like to know which side she's really on! She is one way on our group and another way here - which is it?

Laur Ryan Group Owner MKSurvivors

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